One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

General repair/maintenance/upgrade information exchange.

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby gofast24 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:51 am

Mischief Managed wrote:
ImRich wrote:I wonder what the "Software Upgrade" does?

Does anyone have any information on this or have any connections with Volvo that can get information on it?

I wonder if you need to buy new ECMs, as I never heard of a new ECM firmware being installed before, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.


One of my New England boating friends bought some software that lets him re-program MEFI controlllers. I was thinking about boring and stroking my 454 to 489 and swapping in a 454MAG cam. If I do that, I'll use the software to re-map my MEFI3 and increase the rev limiter to 5200 RPM. You have MEFI4s, perhaps we could work something out if you can find a new MEFI4 map to load... The fix might be as simple as a 5% bump in injector opening time when the TPS is at idle.


Just my thoughts =
As I have advised all 3 of my sons (boats and cars) dont try to out guess the engine OEM engineering/R+D folks. The OEM has put thousands of hours of design, testing, development etc. prior to releasing new products! Yes, even after all that there can be issues that can crop up. I spent 4 years at HD in the test/development department and have some interesting stories which I cant share! If there is a firmware upgrade do it, other wise, leave the engine the way it was designed, tested, and manufactured. Other wise, your just taking your chances on a performance upgrade but not how long the modified engine will last! If you have money burning a hole in your pocket go ahead and just get a new upgraded engine with a full warranty or have a experienced creditable engine builder do it but with a full warranty..
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby ImRich » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:04 pm

I agree. In my case, if there is an OEM software fix, I will consider it.

After all, I already can reach the speed limit on our lake, and faster would just burn more fuel than I already do! :)
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby Morgz » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:19 am

Just to continue this thread... I am having exactly the same issues, but with VP4.3 GXi E engines from the same era (engines manufactured in 2004). It's an intermittent issue but it raised it's head again last time out. Cool day (its still spring here in Australia) and we had been for a 15 minute cruise to a small island off the coast. We sat on anchor for a couple of hours and cruised back to port at a leisurely 3000rpm. After backing off to 6 knots for a couple of minutes entering the harbor I began maneuvering to the jetty using throttles only. I didn't notice that the port engine had cut out until I realized I wasn't getting a response to port throttle inputs. This has happened before - port and starboard - under identical conditions (a period at cruise speed followed by a pull back to idle). It was usually starboard doing this so I changed the IAC. As stated, the issue is intermittent so I don't know if this cured the problem, and it doesn't happen every time. Like Rich, we get no alarms, no prior warning in the way of rough running, nada. We do have a tank vent issue which causes hard refueling and a hot start problem, so I've been working on the theory that the two issues are related. Thanks to the VERY tight engine room on the 2860 I haven't been able to cure the tank vent problem yet so haven't been able to rule it out as a cause.

Anyway, I'm just stating this as it would appear that it isn't a software issue given the different engines involved, nor would it seem logical for a software issue to randomly affect engines over 10 years old.
Regards,
Geoff
2005 Regal Commodore 2860
Groove Armada SOLD :(
User avatar
Morgz
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:00 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby ImRich » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:20 am

I'd certainly fix the vent issue first.

Then do as I did and start checking for loose wires, everywhere.

Check the screws on the back of all your ignition switches, batteries. etc.
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby gofast24 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:05 am

ImRich wrote:I'd certainly fix the vent issue first.

Then do as I did and start checking for loose wires, everywhere.

Check the screws on the back of all your ignition switches, batteries. etc.

Agree with Rich,
Only thing I dont like is when one engine stops why the low oil pressure alarm doesn't sound at the helm (unless it is a faulty ignition switch not supplying 12 VDC to the ECM and therefore no DC to the engine in order to send an alarm to the helm) ?? I just replaced both ignition switches on my boat ($18 each) as one wouldn't return to the "run" position from the "crank" position (return spring broke inside the switch) but you might just have corroded contacts in your ign switch that supply's the 12 VDC to your ECM to initiate and maintain the start/run sequence?
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby ImRich » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:37 am

In my case, my theory is that since the ignition power was interrupted, the ECM thought that I turned off the engine, so this is why the alarm didn't sound.
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby cbsmith » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:20 pm

gofast24 wrote:
ImRich wrote:I'd certainly fix the vent issue first.

Then do as I did and start checking for loose wires, everywhere.

Check the screws on the back of all your ignition switches, batteries. etc.

Agree with Rich,
Only thing I dont like is when one engine stops why the low oil pressure alarm doesn't sound at the helm (unless it is a faulty ignition switch not supplying 12 VDC to the ECM and therefore no DC to the engine in order to send an alarm to the helm) ?? I just replaced both ignition switches on my boat ($18 each) as one wouldn't return to the "run" position from the "crank" position (return spring broke inside the switch) but you might just have corroded contacts in your ign switch that supply's the 12 VDC to your ECM to initiate and maintain the start/run sequence?


I know On the Volvo engines, the low oil pressure alarm logic has engine rpm in it. It is something like the engine has to be over 500rpm and oil pressure less than 5psi to trigger the alarm. If the engine stalls the oil pressure won't alarm as there is no engine rpm. I'm not sure if Mercruiser is the similar to this or not but I am guessing it is as my brother has a Merc 350 and it doesn't have a continuous alarm when the key is turned on but the engine is not started.
2014 Regal 1900
2010 Sea-Doo GTX 155
2007 Sea-Doo Wake 215
cbsmith
 
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:21 pm
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby Morgz » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:36 pm

ImRich wrote:I'd certainly fix the vent issue first.


Easier said than done, the only way I can get to the vent fitting to insert a high point loop is to take the starboard engine out :evil: Even then, it's right in the corner above the water heater so it's still almost impossible to reach. I happen to know this because I installed a new vent fitting (the previous owner had knocked the plastic one off) and it was almost impossible even with both engines out. Our boat lists slightly to starboard at rest as well, which makes the vents run even more critical. I'm considering installing another vent further forward in the engine room so it doesn't run so far. I'd have a better chance of getting a constant fall to the tank that way as well.

I wonder why Regal chose to locate the vent all the way aft in the first place? It means more vent hose and a great chance of low points. Some regulation about it being close to the fuel filler point perhaps?

I'll check the ignition, but I'm pretty sure both switches are OK. Perhaps we have a weak earth somewhere in the ignition system, those tend to cause all kinds of weird symptoms.
Regards,
Geoff
2005 Regal Commodore 2860
Groove Armada SOLD :(
User avatar
Morgz
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:00 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby gofast24 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:43 am

Morgz wrote:
ImRich wrote:I'd certainly fix the vent issue first.


Easier said than done, the only way I can get to the vent fitting to insert a high point loop is to take the starboard engine out :evil: Even then, it's right in the corner above the water heater so it's still almost impossible to reach. I happen to know this because I installed a new vent fitting (the previous owner had knocked the plastic one off) and it was almost impossible even with both engines out. Our boat lists slightly to starboard at rest as well, which makes the vents run even more critical. I'm considering installing another vent further forward in the engine room so it doesn't run so far. I'd have a better chance of getting a constant fall to the tank that way as well.

I wonder why Regal chose to locate the vent all the way aft in the first place? It means more vent hose and a great chance of low points. Some regulation about it being close to the fuel filler point perhaps?

I'll check the ignition, but I'm pretty sure both switches are OK. Perhaps we have a weak earth somewhere in the ignition system, those tend to cause all kinds of weird symptoms.


Agree with your thoughts about the vent being close to the fuel filler flange so you can visibly see fuel over flow while filling and shut off the pump (if it doesnt have a automatic shut off like most if not all gas stations have). If you still think your fuel tank vent is plugged try running at sea (smooth sea) with the fuel fill cap very loose or off, just do this if you dont have a full tank of fuel so nothing will slosh out the fill cap opening to sea. If the vent line is the cause of the problem causing a vacuum in the tank doing this will preclude this as the problem. A maybe safer way to do this is leave the fuel fill cap on tight, run at WOT for a few minutes, slow down, stop the engine, then loosen the fuel fill cap (no noise in the background) and if there is a vacuum in the tank you will hear air rushing in through the now loose fill cap. Let us know how you make out.
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby Tango59 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:41 pm

Hey all, Ok, I know this thread has gone 'cold'... and wonder if 'the problem' has reared its ugly head again in NH? Or Down Under?

We're a 2006 3360 with 5.7 OSxi engines... in NC!.... and eerily -- very similar problem!

I'll be checking ignition switch connections, fuel pump connections, battery connections -- vigorously very soon!

Any new info on this? Thanks
Tango59
2006 3360 HydroTherapy
New Bern, NC
Tango59
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby gofast24 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:37 am

Tango, all my previous recommendations still apply. Good luck and let us know what you find out!
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby ImRich » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:15 pm

I think it's still happening from time to time. I had one instance early this season.

There is supposed to be a firmware update for the ECUs, I'm going to try that soon. Unfortunately, with our short season, it seems to take a year or two to know if it's still happening.
Last edited by ImRich on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby Tango59 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:31 pm

Thanks Rich, and ~very~ sorry to hear things aren't solved there!

So changing out the IACs didn't seem to make the difference?, and the loose wire on the ignition switch doesn't look to be the culprit either? I know you did a whole bunch of additional checks and verifies and 'swap outs' too. Wow.

I guess an ECU update -- would have to be done via a VP dealer?
Tango59
2006 3360 HydroTherapy
New Bern, NC
Tango59
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby ImRich » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:04 am

Yes, I'm told the regional Volvo rep does the ECU firmware update.

I'm waiting towards the end of the season to update the ECU firmware, so if it goes wrong, I don't lose time waiting for parts. I'm told that rarely, an attempted firmware update can 'brick' an ECU, rendering it useless (and a need to purchase a replacement).
Last edited by ImRich on Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby one-n-done » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:50 am

The iac issue holds true for every engine application. They only have two wires , power and a ground control so ecm just actuates them and hopes for the best. It would have been nice to have an internal potentiometer so the ecm could monitor the position and store a fault code for them. the newer throttle by wire has eliminated that whole issue by integrating the iac controls into the throttle body. hope all goes well for you.
User avatar
one-n-done
2012 Regal Owners Supporter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:58 pm
Location: jacksonville,fl

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby Tango59 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:37 am

gofast24 wrote:Tango, all my previous recommendations still apply. Good luck and let us know what you find out!



Thanks GF, I will review!
Tango59
2006 3360 HydroTherapy
New Bern, NC
Tango59
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby nawtical1 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:32 am

Very sorry to hear this has not been resolved. This has most of us stumped.
WARNER
"Sol Poniente"
2004 3860 Hard Top
2005 Crowline 216 LS 350 Magnum Bravo III
310 Rib

Slidell La.
User avatar
nawtical1
2012 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
2012 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
 
Posts: 2085
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:42 am

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby ellerber » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:15 pm

My 2006 3360 5.7L engines does the same thing when I am parking. No one knows?????
ellerber
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby gofast24 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:57 am

ellerber wrote:My 2006 3360 5.7L engines does the same thing when I am parking. No one knows?????

Get the VP dealer to pull any fault codes from your ECU's first, then advise.
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: One engine quits when shifting forward/reverse

Postby ImRich » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:03 pm

To keep this 'log' updated, it's now mid August of 2018 and I have not had this issue happen yet this season, perhaps it's fixed? :)

Two things I did earlier this year that could affect this issue:

1) I replaced my two ignition key switches as one of them was not returning under spring tensions, it could sometimes get stuck in the start position. So if the problem was something to do with a faulty ignition switch, these switches were now replaced. I replaced both of them as I got two that were keyed alike, so I don't have to worry about which switch goes in the port/starboard engine.

2) As documented in another thread about 'Dangerous Screws' ( viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17086 ), I cut some protruding screws that could have been chaffing some of the wires in the harnesses between the helm and the engine room.

The ECM firmware has not yet been updated.

Knock on wood that the problem has gone away.
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Previous

Return to Repair Shop

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], wuhuilin11 and 28 guests