3560 charging question

General repair/maintenance/upgrade information exchange.

3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:23 am

Hi all, On the 3 bank system each with its own isolator will all 3 batteries charge via the alternator or doesthe house battery only get charged via battery charger? Port and starboard batteries are fine but house is sluggish after sitting. All 3 new 6 month ago. Thanks
Underwater254
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:47 am

I'm pretty sure that the house battery should be charging from the engine alternators also. Usually when a boat has been for sale, there is a lot of people visiting it and putting lights on, etc. With little to no engine run time, the house battery goes flat if they don't keep the dockside power connected and turned on.

An easy way to test to check if the engines are charging it properly is to place a volt meter on the house battery and then start an engine, check for an appropriate voltage rise after you start an engine, then kill that engine and test the other. The generator charges the house and engine batteries via the AC battery charger.

Every boat owner should have a multi meter and know or learn how to use it, alternatively have a well funded boat bank account to pay for professional help. ;)
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:28 am

ImRich wrote:I'm pretty sure that the house battery should be charging from the engine alternators also. Usually when a boat has been for sale, there is a lot of people visiting it and putting lights on, etc. With little to no engine run time, the house battery goes flat if they don't keep the dockside power connected and turned on.

An easy way to test to check if the engines are charging it properly is to place a volt meter on the house battery and then start an engine, check for an appropriate voltage rise after you start an engine, then kill that engine and test the other. The generator charges the house and engine batteries via the AC battery charger.

Every boat owner should have a multi meter and know or learn how to use it, alternatively have a well funded boat bank account to pay for professional help. ;)

Rich, agree! We have done this and found that when the engines are running they "attempt" to charge the house battery, but the the length of time the engines are running are not long enough to bring a 50% discharged (12.5 VDC open circuit) Group 8D AGM battery any where near fully charged> We really rely on our house battery charger to do the bull work with the dock power or the gen set when on the hook!
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:30 pm

Sounds right. Both alternator checked at survey to be ok. I do need to replace the battery charger. Not much run time on this one
Underwater254
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Chris_in_Texas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:12 pm

Typically they put a 40A charger on the boat, and its a 3 bank unit. For that vintage it would be the Charles unit. Typically there is a load on the house battery all the time, the main thing is the CO detectors, stereo memory, and bilge pumps as most people don't unplug them, as they are wired on the battery side of the battery switch, so even if its off, you can't turn them off. If it sat for months the battery would be deep discharged potentially.

A simple DC clamp on ammeter would be the way to go to see if they are charging. Here is just an example of one: https://www.amazon.com/Uni-T-B4Q094-UT2 ... 00O1Q2HOQ/ You need to make sure that its DC. You simply set to DC mode, press zero (with DC you have to zero it out) and then clamp onto battery wire. You can see how much the charger is putting into the battery.

I always kept both of my cruisers plugged in 24/7 and always left the battery charger on to keep the batteries fully charged. They are multistage smart chargers so you are good to keep them on all the time. The only time you get into trouble is when they aren't set for the correct type of battery technology (AGM/Flooded/Gel), or you mix them in the same boat. All three banks should stay the same type of batteries, not the same size. So if you have flooded cells they all three need to be flooded cells. If they are flooded have you checked the water levels? If the chargers are set wrong they can cook off electrolyte in the battery pretty quick.

I would invest in a good ammeter before a charger for sure. Simple as a volt meter to check, have someone turn on and off the power to the charger and watch the voltage as well. You should see 14.5VDC when you first turn it on when it starts the bulk charge phase. The charger will also have fuses or circuit breakers for each output as well, make sure its not tripped or blown.

On that age of boat as well most likely there is a battery isolator instead of ACR automatic charge relays, which won't let a battery fully charge when the engines are running because of the drop on the diodes. Isolators will go bad as well, so that is worth a check. On Promariners site there is a process to test the battery isolator as well. Just some things to check before you spend $300-400 on a new multibank smart charger. The current charger that Regal uses should be the Promariner 1240P http://www.promariner.com/en/63140
Thanks, Chris

2012 - Regal 35 Sports Coupe - Twin VP 5.7GiCE-300-P - DP-SA - SOLD
2011 - Sea-Doo RXT260s - 1503HO Rotax 4TEC
2007 - Regal 3060 - Twin VP 5.0OSi - XDP - SOLD
2002 - Crownline 230BR VP 8.2GSiPEFS - DP-SM - SOLD
User avatar
Chris_in_Texas
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
 
Posts: 4305
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Frisco, TX (DFW Area)

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:23 am

Chris, just curious, how do you know the Vintage of the OP's vessel? Suspect that the model designation is the key to age?

Thanks
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Chris_in_Texas » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:00 pm

The 3560 was around from 2004 to 2006 when in 2007 it became the 3760. So its in that vintage area. :D Just like the 4160 was from 2000-2001 and then in 2002 became the 4260, and then in 2006 became the 4460.
Thanks, Chris

2012 - Regal 35 Sports Coupe - Twin VP 5.7GiCE-300-P - DP-SA - SOLD
2011 - Sea-Doo RXT260s - 1503HO Rotax 4TEC
2007 - Regal 3060 - Twin VP 5.0OSi - XDP - SOLD
2002 - Crownline 230BR VP 8.2GSiPEFS - DP-SM - SOLD
User avatar
Chris_in_Texas
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
 
Posts: 4305
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Frisco, TX (DFW Area)

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:33 pm

Thanks She just got home so I have some checking to do. With shore power Is one cord designated for running ac? And the other charging the house?
Underwater254
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Chris_in_Texas » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:17 pm

Shore 1 and Shore 2 control each side of the AC panel. Left side is typically shore 1 and right side is shore 2. With the transfer switch you can run both sides on a single shore 1 cord. You are limited to the amount you can power under 30A, but AC and charger you are good. You just have to remember to keep the transfer switch on. That is how when you run the generator you power the right side as well with that same transfer switch.
Thanks, Chris

2012 - Regal 35 Sports Coupe - Twin VP 5.7GiCE-300-P - DP-SA - SOLD
2011 - Sea-Doo RXT260s - 1503HO Rotax 4TEC
2007 - Regal 3060 - Twin VP 5.0OSi - XDP - SOLD
2002 - Crownline 230BR VP 8.2GSiPEFS - DP-SM - SOLD
User avatar
Chris_in_Texas
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
 
Posts: 4305
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Frisco, TX (DFW Area)

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:17 pm

Thanks for the info Chris. Do you know if it is normal to have group 27 batteries for motors and an 8d for house?
Underwater254
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Chris_in_Texas » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:09 pm

Its hard to say what people have done. I originally had G31's for engines and house on my 35SC and changed them to G27 for the starters and left a G31 for the house. I never was on the hook without the genny running, so to me it wasn't a problem. If you have the space for an 8D that is good but you start to get into logistical issues with size and weight trying to get them changed out. I would think about splitting into two 6V golf cart batteries myself just from a weight standpoint. Its much better to series batteries than parallel them, because if one goes bad in parallel it can take the other one out with it.
Thanks, Chris

2012 - Regal 35 Sports Coupe - Twin VP 5.7GiCE-300-P - DP-SA - SOLD
2011 - Sea-Doo RXT260s - 1503HO Rotax 4TEC
2007 - Regal 3060 - Twin VP 5.0OSi - XDP - SOLD
2002 - Crownline 230BR VP 8.2GSiPEFS - DP-SM - SOLD
User avatar
Chris_in_Texas
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
2013 Regal Owners MULTIPLE Donator!
 
Posts: 4305
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Frisco, TX (DFW Area)

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:17 am

Chris_in_Texas wrote:Its hard to say what people have done. I originally had G31's for engines and house on my 35SC and changed them to G27 for the starters and left a G31 for the house. I never was on the hook without the genny running, so to me it wasn't a problem. If you have the space for an 8D that is good but you start to get into logistical issues with size and weight trying to get them changed out. I would think about splitting into two 6V golf cart batteries myself just from a weight standpoint. Its much better to series batteries than parallel them, because if one goes bad in parallel it can take the other one out with it.

Agree about the getting the 8D replaced! The flooded (wet) cell battery that was on the vessel when we purchased it had been over dis charged, and over recharged so most of the electrolyte had been boiled out (the battery box had about 1" of electrolyte in it)! With two strong sons we pulled out the shot flooded battery and replaced it with a group 8D AGM battery, lost of fun getting the old one out and the new one in:). When we made this change in the battery type switched the Charles charger from flooded to AGM (the switch to do this is conveniently located on the back of the charger so you have to pull the charger off the bulk head to do this) , then proceeded to put two new Exide Group 34 AGM propulsion engine starting batteries in. About a month later also changed out the Westerbeke gen set starting battery to a AGM so now all 4 batteries are AGM. Still not sure if the gen set battery gets charged from the Charles charger, engine alternators, or the gen sets battery charging alternator but after 4 years no problems with any of the 4 batteries:).
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:19 pm

Chris are you still looking for a radar dome? I have the Raytheon 24" from my 3560. Dome is off I just need to pull the wire. Previous owner upgraded last year to Simrad so I don't need it.
Underwater254
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:18 am

Underwater254 wrote:Thanks for the info Chris. Do you know if it is normal to have group 27 batteries for motors and an 8d for house?


When I purchased my 3560, it had two starting batteries, and instead of one 8D house battery, it had two smaller batteries in parallel but stored in the 8D battery box.

Those house batteries were tired, so I replaced them with an 8D battery. So now I have two separate starting batteries, and one 8D house battery.

The point of my post is that you can do whatever works for you on your boat.
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:45 am

ImRich wrote:
Underwater254 wrote:Thanks for the info Chris. Do you know if it is normal to have group 27 batteries for motors and an 8d for house?


When I purchased my 3560, it had two starting batteries, and instead of one 8D house battery, it had two smaller batteries in parallel but stored in the 8D battery box.

Those house batteries were tired, so I replaced them with an 8D battery. So now I have two separate starting batteries, and one 8D house battery.

The point of my post is that you can do whatever works for you on your boat.

So, have to ask how was it putting the new 8D battery in? Did you go with a AGM or flooded? The AGM can handle a lot more discharge/charge cycles than a wet cell. I put in a very accurate (+/- 1%) digital Blue Seas OLED voltmeter in the dash to get a accurate voltage reading while on the dock(or at sea) . We dont let it discharge below 12.5 VDC as that is approximately 50% discharged for a AGM battery. When getting to that voltage we either turn off the audio system or start the gen set to bring it back up to at least 12.8 VDC (about 90% charged).
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:23 pm

It was easy to put in the 8D. A friend and I carried down into the engine compartment using the 'rope' handles on each end, and then he just lifted it into the battery box. Thinking about how to do this was a lot more work than it was in reality.

I went with a flooded cell battery since my starting batteries are also flooded (but 'maintenance free'). Here in NH we're not allowed to overnight on the hook on any inland waters, so I don't need extra capacity or discharge. I often run my generator when I'm anchored during the day to keep my cockpit fridge running and cool (it's AC only).
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 am

ImRich wrote:It was easy to put in the 8D. A friend and I carried down into the engine compartment using the 'rope' handles on each end, and then he just lifted it into the battery box. Thinking about how to do this was a lot more work than it was in reality.

I went with a flooded cell battery since my starting batteries are also flooded (but 'maintenance free'). Here in NH we're not allowed to overnight on the hook on any inland waters, so I don't need extra capacity or discharge. I often run my generator when I'm anchored during the day to keep my cockpit fridge running and cool (it's AC only).

Gosh, cant overnight on any inland waters? Kind of crazy? What is the logic used for that "law"? Here on ''lake Lanier" we look forward to over nighting on the hook> Dont want a BUI sailing back to our dock! About 6/10 boats tie up together, all drop anchor, and have a little fun.
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:02 pm

A LOT of us on Lake Winnipesaukee agree!

Here's a summary of the law:
https://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire/ha ... g-Permits/

Here are the RSAs (NH Laws) about it:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/htm ... -A-mrg.htm

But my guess is that some politicians didn't like people anchoring off their McMansions on the lake and passed this law, it's been in place for years and years (since 1967?). No overnighting on any inland waterways in NH (not only our lake). Now all the homeowners around the larger lakes defend it vigorously, any time we (the larger boats with certified heads and sleeping quarters) try to discuss it, there's always a large US vs THEM verbal fight.

We may be the only (or one of the few) states with a law like this? My boat doesn't leave this lake and I'm used to it, so what can I do? ;)

We spend the nights tied to our dock.

I'm told that some try to get around the 'law' by having someone on board stay awake all night, but I don't think this works to get around the law as it says no overnight anchoring and doesn't talk about sleeping. I'd never try that myself, I just head to my dock.

But this is way off topic of "3560 charging question". ;)
Last edited by ImRich on Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
Rich
2005 - 3560
Unbelievable!
NH
ImRich
 
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: NH USA

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:00 pm

I've never done "night on the hook" but am looking forward to trying it. Someday in North Channel Michigan Upper Peninsula
Underwater254
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am

Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:52 pm

ImRich wrote:A LOT of us on Lake Winnipesaukee agree!

Here's a summary of the law:
https://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire/ha ... g-Permits/

Here are the RSAs (NH Laws) about it:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/htm ... -A-mrg.htm

But my guess is that some politicians didn't like people anchoring off their McMansions on the lake and passed this law, it's been in place for years and years (since 1967?). No overnighting on any inland waterways in NH (not only our lake). Now all the homeowners around the larger lakes defend it vigorously, any time we (the larger boats with certified heads and sleeping quarters) try to discuss it, there's always a large US vs THEM verbal fight.

We may be the only (or one of the few) states with a law like this? My boat doesn't leave this lake and I'm used to it, so what can I do? ;)

We spend the nights tied to our dock.

I'm told that some try to get around the 'law' by having someone on board stay awake all night, but I don't think this works to get around the law as it says no overnight anchoring and doesn't talk about sleeping. I'd never try that myself, I just head to my dock.

But this is way off topic of "3560 charging question". ;)


Ya, way off topic but someone mentioned not having to worry about the house battery while on the hook overnight as they cant over night on their lake so no need to worry about house battery discharging:). What is the definition of "over night", have to read the NH laws link .
gofast24
2001 Regal 4160
Twin VP 8.1GSiI V Drive Inboards
Lake Lanier, GA
gofast24
 
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm
Location: Lake Lanier GA

Next

Return to Repair Shop

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: xixp and 26 guests