Need a New Sump box

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Need a New Sump box

Postby Seven » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:19 pm

I need to replace my sump box on my 3880. The attwood box gave me too much trouble last year. Even with replacing the switch. It seems to small to begin with on top of being mounted on an angle.
Anyone try a "whale Grey IC Shower Waste Pump Kit" Seems like a new approach. No need for a box. One issue is they only have a 2 input manifold so would need to use 2 "Y" fittings for the 2 sinks, the shower, and the AC drain. Plus it is very expensive compared to a rule or attwood box.
On the plus side its a diaphragm pump so it's better at handling waste than a bilge pump. And can run dry for short periods so a manual switch is possible.
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby JNelson90 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:46 pm

Hi Seven,

I am also tired of working on / replacing my Atwood sump. I just ordered and configured a Johnson 12V 1000GPH Shower Sump with Switch. It has enough connections but I did need to get an adapter to go from 3/4 to 5/8" on one of the inputs. The cost on Amazon was really good at $89.86 but I haven't installed it yet to determine if it is superior or inferior to the Atwood sump. Let me know if you go with the Whale option and how well it works. Best of luck!
Kindest regards, Jeff

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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Rpontual » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:55 am

Seven wrote:I need to replace my sump box on my 3880. The attwood box gave me too much trouble last year. Even with replacing the switch. It seems to small to begin with on top of being mounted on an angle.
Anyone try a "whale Grey IC Shower Waste Pump Kit" Seems like a new approach. No need for a box. One issue is they only have a 2 input manifold so would need to use 2 "Y" fittings for the 2 sinks, the shower, and the AC drain. Plus it is very expensive compared to a rule or attwood box.
On the plus side its a diaphragm pump so it's better at handling waste than a bilge pump. And can run dry for short periods so a manual switch is possible.


Look for "whale two way manifold", it is used before the pump and includes an electronic water sensor. I am not sure it is suitable for shower, I have seen it being used with 2 sinks.
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Seven » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:19 am

Rpontual wrote:
Seven wrote:I need to replace my sump box on my 3880. The attwood box gave me too much trouble last year. Even with replacing the switch. It seems to small to begin with on top of being mounted on an angle.
Anyone try a "whale Grey IC Shower Waste Pump Kit" Seems like a new approach. No need for a box. One issue is they only have a 2 input manifold so would need to use 2 "Y" fittings for the 2 sinks, the shower, and the AC drain. Plus it is very expensive compared to a rule or attwood box.
On the plus side its a diaphragm pump so it's better at handling waste than a bilge pump. And can run dry for short periods so a manual switch is possible.


Look for "whale two way manifold", it is used before the pump and includes an electronic water sensor. I am not sure it is suitable for shower, I have seen it being used with 2 sinks.


One of the issues is I need 4 inputs. (shower, 2 sinks, AC drain)
I am leaning towards the Whale sump box. Its a larger box and still has the diaphragm pump. It also has the pump output on the bottom so installing on an angle should drain all the water. I need to measure everything to make sure it fits first. Also waiting for the Defender warehouse sale at the end of March to see if the price goes down.
--2002 3880 Regal Flybridge | Twin Merc 8.1HO| **Seven**
--2003 AB 13 VST Console Inflatable | Tohatsu 40hp TLDI **Phish'n ski**
--310 Mercury Inflatable | 1982 9.9 Johnson
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby gofast24 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:47 am

The Johnson 1000 GPH pump is great ($98 on Amazon), it has 3 inlets and a electronic switch. The only problem we had with both of our pumps is that they need to be mounted pperfectly level while the vessel is just setting in the water! The vessels fiberglass sump pump mounting pads are not level , dont know why Regal made them that way but that is the way it is! If the housing is tilted where the water level is higher on the "switch" side of the housing the switch calls for the pump to run but the pump side of the housing doesnt have enough water on that side for the pump to "pump" water, hope you understand what I am indicating? Our previous aft sump pump ($28 on Amazon) made it for just one year, then the check valve got hard and let discharge water back into the sump so the pump just cycled every couple of minutes until the pump motor finally burned out! Guess you get what you pay for?
Regarding 4 inputs our aft sump pump has the need for 4 inputs, galley sink, bridge deck sink, shower drain, and aft head sink. Regal just put a "T" into one of the 3/4" drain hoses (the aft head sink and the bridge deck sink) so the net result is that all 4 inputs required are satisfied. In you case with the 4 inputs required you either already have a "T" fitted or can put a "T" in yourself?
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Ryan903w » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:10 pm

I installed the whale gulper ic waste pump on a sea ray I use to have. It was a nice setup and would pump as soon as it sensed water vs having a sump box on the boat and waiting for the float switch to activate. It was obviously cost quite a bit more than the traditional sump box but it worked well. As for needing to have multiple inlets I would just y off the 2 inputs on sensor and connect 2 drains to each side of the sensor. I picked up all the fittings I needed at Lowe's and it was easy to install.
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Rpontual » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:56 am

I just opened the floor of my new boat and found out how it is configured, this may be of use to you.

My Bavaria R40 has three pumps to serve six inputs. One whale pump with the dual manifold is used to collect whiter from two showers. One whale pump with the dual manifold is used to collect water from two sinks. One traditional type of shower sump pump is used to collect water from two a/c drains. The boat also has another whale pump with dual manifolds serving a sink and an a/c drain in the galley. In this case they used two check valves.

The R40 installation might be an overkill, but the logic used may be related to:
1) The two showers are at the same height and so are the two sinks
2) The whale pumps may be great and do not have moving parts, they get turned on with small water volume
3) The dual manifold leads to suction noise on the drain that has no water when the pump is on
4) a/c may be used when guests are at sleep

At the galley, the sink is at a much higher location than the a/c, the use of check valves prevent the water from overflowing the a/c tray if the pump is slower than the water volume or if the pump is off.

At the cabin area, the traditional sump pump has huge capacity as a/c drain only. Hence it should not cycle frequently and should make less noise to users.

The use of two whale pumps to separate sink and shower sources eliminate the risk of opening the sink and having water mining at the shower.

You are considering the whale sump pump with dual manifold and “Y” pipes to serve 6 water sources. As a minimum you should consider positioning check valves to prevent different height sources to experience backflow.
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby gofast24 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:10 pm

Interesting, 3 individual pump to serve 6 inlets? Our 4160 is again doing fine now with the second aft Johnson 1000 GPH pumps . Again, the trick to using the Johnson's with the electronic water level switch is to make sure they are installed perfectly level when at dock/anchored. The results of not being level I have indicated in a previous post.

PS: We very seldom use the showers as our lake is great for dipping into and have a bathroom/shower house at the marina if a shower is really required.
Thanks
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Seven » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:22 am

Romulo, that is great info. Thank you!!
You gave me a lot to think about. I didn't think about the noise when sleeping if the pump comes on for the AC. Good point.

Go Fast, I have a johnson pump on my dinghy and it works great for rain water. Not sure how well the sensor will work with soap scum from the shower, probably same as the whale sensor.

I am still leaning toward the whale box with diaphragm pump even more now that Romulo pointed out the AC feed will run the pump more often at night.

Another thing I am going to try this year is to use vinegar every so often to remove soap scum. Hoping this will help keep everything "clean".

I will report back in a couple weeks after the Defender sale with what I am buying. Still may go the cheap route. HA! I am so confused.....
--2002 3880 Regal Flybridge | Twin Merc 8.1HO| **Seven**
--2003 AB 13 VST Console Inflatable | Tohatsu 40hp TLDI **Phish'n ski**
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby gofast24 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Seven wrote:Romulo, that is great info. Thank you!!
You gave me a lot to think about. I didn't think about the noise when sleeping if the pump comes on for the AC. Good point.

Go Fast, I have a johnson pump on my dinghy and it works great for rain water. Not sure how well the sensor will work with soap scum from the shower, probably same as the whale sensor.

I am still leaning toward the whale box with diaphragm pump even more now that Romulo pointed out the AC feed will run the pump more often at night.

Another thing I am going to try this year is to use vinegar every so often to remove soap scum. Hoping this will help keep everything "clean".

I will report back in a couple weeks after the Defender sale with what I am buying. Still may go the cheap route. HA! I am so confused.....


I highly recommend using hydrogen peroxide in the sink and shower drains (just pour a half pint or so into each drain) to get ride of soap scum and especially bacteria, it is basically a topical antiseptic and will not harden any rubber parts (like the check valves in the sump pumps)! Additional use of the hydrogen peroxide is pour a pint or so into the A/C condensate pans once or twice a year. It will get rid of the musty odor in the pans and the air passing over it as well as "sanitizing" the drain hoses from the pans to the "sump pumps". From history, hydrogen peroxide was the oxidizer used (at a 90% concentration) in the German V2 rockets, the stuff I buy at the drug store is about 3 % concentration, not too good for rocket fuel :).
Yesterday we got a new Johnson 1000 GPH aft sump pump installed, as typical it was about 6 degrees from being level using the Regal molded in pad, I used two 1/2" thick self stick rubber bumpers under the "low" side of the sump housing to make it level and now like the fwd pump works great!

PS: Our AC units, when running, are a lot louder than the sump pump buried in the engine room running maybe once every 5 /10 minutes to evacuate the AC condensate.
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Rpontual » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:54 pm

Go fast, the sump pump box is large. I guess once people stop using showers and sinks, the a/c only liquid will take time to demand the pump to turn on.

The whale pump is different. First because the bucket is small and second because when it is on it sucks the water from sink/shower and without water one hears the vacuum noise.

The whale pump “seems” great and strong. I also believe the sensor does not touch the water. But time will tell...
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby gofast24 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:41 am

Rpontual wrote:Go fast, the sump pump box is large. I guess once people stop using showers and sinks, the a/c only liquid will take time to demand the pump to turn on.

The whale pump is different. First because the bucket is small and second because when it is on it sucks the water from sink/shower and without water one hears the vacuum noise.

The whale pump “seems” great and strong. I also believe the sensor does not touch the water. But time will tell...

Thanks for the info!
Have to check out the "whale pump" as to how it turns on/off without touching the water? We have learned not to take long showers using a lot of soap, heavy duty hair shampoo especially with hair conditioner (really leaves a lot of scum in the sump) and washing really greasy dishes in the galley sink. All 3 cause a build up on either a float/electronic switch as well a gumming up the anti drain back rubber check valves on our "traditional box type sump pumps. Agree with the statement that has a small bucket that when using the AC units the whale pump will kick in a lot more frequently and wake you up?
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Rpontual » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:56 pm

gofast24 wrote:...Have to check out the "whale pump" as to how it turns on/off without touching the water? We have learned not to take long showers using a lot of soap, heavy duty hair shampoo especially with hair conditioner (really leaves a lot of scum in the sump) and washing really greasy dishes in the galley sink. All 3 cause a build up on either a float/electronic switch as well a gumming up the anti drain back rubber check valves on our "traditional box type sump pumps. Agree with the statement that has a small bucket that when using the AC units the whale pump will kick in a lot more frequently and wake you up?


This link describes the technology. My boat has the dual input manifold that you see at 2:30min in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP2HUh3 ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Regal3260 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:13 pm

Seven - Here's a post to our previous discussion about changing out our shower sump pump kit on our 3260.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10332#p60215

We went with the larger Attwood box and it we've noticed the difference as the pump does not turn on as often and our
previous box could overflow into the bilge.

Here's the link to the Attwood Sump kits.
http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/prod ... ump-System

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Regal3260 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:20 pm

Romulo - Just noticed you moved onto a Bavaria. Gorgeous boat! What made you take the jump? Beside the obvious yacht looking R40.

Not to take over this thread as well...

Cheers,

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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Rpontual » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:01 am

Regal3260 wrote:Romulo - Just noticed you moved onto a Bavaria. Gorgeous boat! What made you take the jump? Beside the obvious yacht looking R40.

Not to take over this thread as well...

Cheers,

Mark


I wanted to add a way for the admiral or guests to watch were we are heading. The 35SC and the other Regal models do not offer front facing co-pilot seat(s). Secondary goals were to have a door separating cabin from cockpit and to have optional sun shade in the cockpit.

We ended up with the R40 and are very pleased with it. I am still getting used to it and planning some DIY changes...
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby gofast24 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Regal3260 wrote:Seven - Here's a post to our previous discussion about changing out our shower sump pump kit on our 3260.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10332#p60215

We went with the larger Attwood box and it we've noticed the difference as the pump does not turn on as often and our
previous box could overflow into the bilge.

Here's the link to the Attwood Sump kits.
http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/prod ... ump-System

Cheers,

Mark

We have gone thru 3X Attwood sump pumps. Either the check valve has deteriorated or hardened (previous owner probably poured bleach down any of the drains) or the "float" type switch stuck in the on or off position or the float switch housing had water ingress which caused the pump to not operate until after the sump housing was full of water and over flowed into the bilge. Have to take a look at the "Whale Pump" next but as we have figured out how to keep the Johnson's working properly will just stick with them for now.
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby gofast24 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:49 pm

Rpontual wrote:
gofast24 wrote:...Have to check out the "whale pump" as to how it turns on/off without touching the water? We have learned not to take long showers using a lot of soap, heavy duty hair shampoo especially with hair conditioner (really leaves a lot of scum in the sump) and washing really greasy dishes in the galley sink. All 3 cause a build up on either a float/electronic switch as well a gumming up the anti drain back rubber check valves on our "traditional box type sump pumps. Agree with the statement that has a small bucket that when using the AC units the whale pump will kick in a lot more frequently and wake you up?


This link describes the technology. My boat has the dual input manifold that you see at 2:30min in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP2HUh3 ... e=youtu.be


After watching the video these systems still rely on a "sensor"(electronic or mechanical, dont know) so assume they would still be subject to soap scum the same as a "float" or electronic" switch as we have in our Johnson's. Have to wonder about the price also? Also, as these switches dont rely on a "sump" the small amount of AC condensate will most likely energize the pump head frequently and as the switch and/or pump housing has a 15 sec delay to shut off have to wonder how that might effect your sleep?
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby Rpontual » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:53 pm

gofast24 wrote:After watching the video these systems still rely on a "sensor"(electronic or mechanical, dont know) so assume they would still be subject to soap scum the same as a "float" or electronic" switch as we have in our Johnson's...


Some of the technical information has:
    - Senses waste level through wall - not in contact with water
    - Service free - No moving parts to clog or burn
    - Fully potted circuitry - protected against water ingress
    - 5 gallons per minute
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Re: Need a New Sump box

Postby gofast24 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:54 pm

Rpontual wrote:
gofast24 wrote:After watching the video these systems still rely on a "sensor"(electronic or mechanical, dont know) so assume they would still be subject to soap scum the same as a "float" or electronic" switch as we have in our Johnson's...


Some of the technical information has:
    - Senses waste level through wall - not in contact with water
    - Service free - No moving parts to clog or burn
    - Fully potted circuitry - protected against water ingress
    - 5 gallons per minute

Couple of questions =
How do you pump water with out any moving parts, has to be a impeller, diaphragm, or piston? if it is powered by DC voltage what prevents anything from "burning"
The sensor is thru a "wall" so what happens when the "wall" gets covered with soap scum. When our previous "Atwood pumps" failed there was soap scum everywhere in the sump box, including the "anti drain back" valve, not just the float switch. Guess we will just have to see how the two Johnson pumps with electronic switches work this season (season is just a few weeks away here in GA :)

thanks
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