Fresh water piping leak

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Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:49 pm

My water pump was cycling periodically. I found the leak at the hot water tank....thankfully it's not the tank. The leak is between the plastic pipe and the plastic fitting that is threaded onto the hot water tank metal outlet nozzle. So, I need to purchase some pipe and fittings. Does anyone know the brand of piping used? There is no brand or rating printed on the pipe. Also, are special tools required to fit the piping and fittings together?
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby MyPleasure » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:44 pm

I believe the fittings are for PEX or Wirsbo pipe....rick
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby rrhopkins » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:04 pm

My 2002 2465 uses Whale 15mm tubing. I bought it used but it looks like original. I had to replace several fitting to correct my leaks.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby Chris_in_Texas » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:55 pm

Look at the PEX pipe for a name. It could be SeaTech as well. Regal likes to use 15mm SeaTech and I am not sure when they started to do so.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby MyPleasure » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:29 pm

FYI in the picture in the above post It shows a piece of rubber pipe that I split to put around the PEX tubing because it was rubbing on the sharp metal cover of the hot water tank.....it actually had a groove started on the tubing.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:32 pm

Chris
After a second look I found wording on the red (hot water) piping. It said "Neptune System Sea Pex (maybe it was Sea Flex, bad lighting) 15 mm". I went to the Sea Flex site. I couldn't find any reference to Neptune System, but the fitting looked similar to mine, but I couldn't find the high temp fittings (35 series) in meteric size. I will call them Monday.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby MyPleasure » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:17 pm

Question?......Isn't 15mm the same size as 1/2".....just wondering....Rick
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby SGilbert » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:30 pm

MyPleasure wrote:Question?......Isn't 15mm the same size as 1/2".....just wondering....Rick

No. ½" = 12.5mm
(15mm = .590551 in)
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:05 pm

I talked with Seatech and sent him a pic. He said the fittings aren't theirs, as they are white. All their 15mm fittings are black. He said any brand of fitting should work because all 15 mm piping is to the same specs. I believe the reason it's leaking is the strain on the piping....Regal didn't install enough slack. I will probably put a flex hose (Whale has one) on the heater outlet and then install new Whale fittings.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby gofast24 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:57 am

kthurt wrote:I talked with Seatech and sent him a pic. He said the fittings aren't theirs, as they are white. All their 15mm fittings are black. He said any brand of fitting should work because all 15 mm piping is to the same specs. I believe the reason it's leaking is the strain on the piping....Regal didn't install enough slack. I will probably put a flex hose (Whale has one) on the heater outlet and then install new Whale fittings.

Good idea regarding the flex hose although the plastic PEX piping should be able to handle a little movement (or vibration as happens in a boats engine room).
As the 15 mm size designation is a EURO metric standard but not sure if it designates the ID or OD of the tubing? US (SAE/ASME) pipe sizes normally indicate the ID of the pipe or tubing?
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:47 am

The metric piping is OD; hence, theoretically any brand fitting should work.....as the Sea Tech stated. Agree, the semi flexible piping will handle some movement, but mine is putting a lot of strain at the point it connects to the heater, and to resolve it would take several fitting and additional piping....and these fitting are expensive, plus my back couldn't handle the additional plumbing reroute. Some of these fitting are only rated up to 150 degrees. My heater doesn't having a mixing valve downstream, so they will see at least 165 deg, but hopefully that will only lower the pressure rating, which should still be above my operating pressures. Guess I will find out.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby gofast24 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:25 am

kthurt wrote:The metric piping is OD; hence, theoretically any brand fitting should work.....as the Sea Tech stated. Agree, the semi flexible piping will handle some movement, but mine is putting a lot of strain at the point it connects to the heater, and to resolve it would take several fitting and additional piping....and these fitting are expensive, plus my back couldn't handle the additional plumbing reroute. Some of these fitting are only rated up to 150 degrees. My heater doesn't having a mixing valve downstream, so they will see at least 165 deg, but hopefully that will only lower the pressure rating, which should still be above my operating pressures. Guess I will find out.

Dont you have a thermostat on the tank (for the electric heating element control temperature) that you can adjust the water temperature? 165F is in the range of seriously scalding some one that accidentally comes in contact with that temperature water! Also, do you not have a temp/pressure relief valve on the tank that will blow off if excessive temp or pressure?
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:19 pm

I've never seen an adjustment, but because the tank is also heated by engine cooling water, the temp is going to run high....that's where I came up with 165 deg, engine thermostat temp. I guess that's why some systems have a mixing valve to mix cool water with heater outlet. Your right about scalding, but my kids are long gone. The high temperature does help provide more hot water capacity when taking showers.
Yes, the heater has a relief valve. It's a Whale Seaward 6 gal.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby gofast24 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:32 pm

kthurt wrote:I've never seen an adjustment, but because the tank is also heated by engine cooling water, the temp is going to run high....that's where I came up with 165 deg, engine thermostat temp. I guess that's why some systems have a mixing valve to mix cool water with heater outlet. Your right about scalding, but my kids are long gone. The high temperature does help provide more hot water capacity when taking showers.
Yes, the heater has a relief valve. It's a Whale Seaward 6 gal.

Agree with the 165 F assumption as our port engine also sends jacket water to a HE coil in the tank. This also requires the port engine to take much longer to come up to operating temperature on a cold engine/cold hot water tank as some of the heat generated by the engine is being transferred to the hot water tank. Still don't like having 165F hot water anywhere but not much we can do about it on a boat unless a down stream mixing valve is installed. You would think there would be some code requiring hot water temps to be limited or adjusted to 120/140F max.? The only plus here is if you loose sea water to that engines heat exchanger the hot water tank takes some of the heat away for a few minutes until the high jacket water temp alarm sounds (but not too good for the sea water cooled exhaust system).
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:32 am

Update....I received parts but ran into a problem. The current fitting that screws into the heater is a brass adapter where the 15 mm pex hose is inserted. This is the source of the leak. But, I can't unscrew the old fitting. I'm concerned if I apply too much tongue, I'll damage the threads or tank and end up having to replace the heater. I've sprayed the threaded joint with Liguid Wrench and will let it soak a while before trying again. Because of the sheet metal cover I cannot see the female fitting on the tank, I assume the tank is metal and the female fitting on the tank is welded to the tank. Anyone have some advise?
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby gofast24 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:27 pm

kthurt wrote:Update....I received parts but ran into a problem. The current fitting that screws into the heater is a brass adapter where the 15 mm pex hose is inserted. This is the source of the leak. But, I can't unscrew the old fitting. I'm concerned if I apply too much tongue, I'll damage the threads or tank and end up having to replace the heater. I've sprayed the threaded joint with Liguid Wrench and will let it soak a while before trying again. Because of the sheet metal cover I cannot see the female fitting on the tank, I assume the tank is metal and the female fitting on the tank is welded to the tank. Anyone have some advise?

My thoughts (what I would do) = Drain the hot water tank, pull back insulation and sheet metal cover around the fitting, use a propane torch to heat up the fitting, try to get most of the heat to the threaded in nipple on the tank, and then use a proper size hex socket to carefully unscrew the fitting if it is hopefully a in line fitting!
Last edited by gofast24 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Good idea, but I'm not sure the sheet metal is removable. And, as usual, it's location is not convenient. Maybe I could turn the heater on to somewhat heat up the welded fitting, then use a freeze spray propellant to cool the male brass fitting.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:27 pm

Success! After applying Liquid Wrench and cooling the fitting, a "moderate" amount of torque still wouldn't break the threaded joint. I looked at the new fittings I ordered and realized you can remove the plastic insert that grips the pipe, then you can remove the oring that seals the joint. So, I did this to the old brass fitting, finding the oring to be hardened. Even though my new fittings are a different brand, an oring from a new one fit the brass fitting. I cleaned up the brass fitting where the oring fit. I then added elbows to the original pipe routing to remove the stress on the joint. Finally..... have the water back inservice.
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby gofast24 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:37 pm

kthurt wrote:Success! After applying Liquid Wrench and cooling the fitting, a "moderate" amount of torque still wouldn't break the threaded joint. I looked at the new fittings I ordered and realized you can remove the plastic insert that grips the pipe, then you can remove the oring that seals the joint. So, I did this to the old brass fitting, finding the oring to be hardened. Even though my new fittings are a different brand, an oring from a new one fit the brass fitting. I cleaned up the brass fitting where the oring fit. I then added elbows to the original pipe routing to remove the stress on the joint. Finally..... have the water back inservice.

Great! I just corrected my previous mail indicating heating up the welded in fitting to " heat up the threaded fitting", sorry! Obviously you cant heat up a "welded in" fitting, sorry! For all Happy Holidays! Looking forward to being back on the lake in March or so. As we are wet docked year round we still go to the boat to enjoy friends and party a little over the short winter months :)
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Re: Fresh water piping leak

Postby kthurt » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:08 pm

gofast24 wrote:
kthurt wrote:Success! After applying Liquid Wrench and cooling the fitting, a "moderate" amount of torque still wouldn't break the threaded joint. I looked at the new fittings I ordered and realized you can remove the plastic insert that grips the pipe, then you can remove the oring that seals the joint. So, I did this to the old brass fitting, finding the oring to be hardened. Even though my new fittings are a different brand, an oring from a new one fit the brass fitting. I cleaned up the brass fitting where the oring fit. I then added elbows to the original pipe routing to remove the stress on the joint. Finally..... have the water back inservice.

Great! I just corrected my previous mail indicating heating up the welded in fitting to " heat up the threaded fitting", sorry! Obviously you cant heat up a "welded in" fitting, sorry! For all Happy Holidays! Looking forward to being back on the lake in March or so. As we are wet docked year round we still go to the boat to enjoy friends and party a little over the short winter months :)

Yep, I'm on Chickamauga, about 100 miles north of you. I will take mine for a spin every 3 or 4 weeks just to ensure everything is working OK, clean a little scum off the bottom, spread some oil around in the engines, run the generator etc. The Sandhill cranes are now migrating to the island where the Hiwassee River dumps into the Tenn, we always pick a warm day and take the 20 mile trip up the river to seem them.
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