3560 charging question

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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:08 pm

Gosh, need to move to the south as I did in 1986, reading your NH laws about over nighting are a real bummer? 50% or more of our boating (almost year round) includes a overnight on our lake (along with 50 or more boats/house boats). Usually about 10 of us tie up together (all on the hook ) and just have a little fun.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:44 am

One more question. Does the battery charger work off of either shore cords (line 1 or 2). Or is it dedicated to just one. Right now I only have power to shore 1 and no power at the charger. The charger light at the main is not lit either. So I'm wondering if I need to power shore 2 for the charger to work?
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:48 am

Turn on the bridging breaker (it's labeled "Transfer"?) that couples both sides of the main AC panel together. This allows the whole boat (and your battery charger) to get AC power when only on one shore power cord (usually shore Power 1).

Details:
1) Connect shore power to "Shore power 1", be sure the breaker is on in the shore power cabinet where your power cables connect to the boat.
2) Turn on "Shore Power 1" breaker on the main AC circuit panel, and the Generator breaker is OFF, this is the breaker directly under the "Shore Power 1" main breaker).
3) be sure "Shore Power 2" breaker is OFF on the main AC circuit panel.
4) Turn on "Transfer" breaker, this is the one directly under the "Shore Power 2" main breaker.

Just be sure that you don't turn on too many high current devices as you're limited to a maximum of 30A of current draw when doing this. For example, don't try to use more than one at a time of things than can draw a lot of AC current, such as:
the cooktop in the galley
the Microwave
the hot water heater
the airconditioning/heat

To control those high current items, you can turn their breakers ON or OFF as required.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:52 am

Just FYI on our 4160 = We have two 30 AMP 120 VAC shore power cables/inputs to the vessel. On our salon breaker panel there are two shore power 30 amp main breakers (#1 and #2) , both have to be turned on to get A/C / engine room heater, fridge, etc. To switch over to gen set there are two "sliding" plastic covers that only let us use either shore power or gen set, not possible to connect shore power and gen set at the same time, interesting "mechanical" solution to cross connecting shore with gen set power. Some of our dock mates have a single 4 pole plug/cord that brings in both 120 VAC sides from the dock power outlet. As far as I know it is just two separate 120 VAC 30 AMP lines, not 240 VAC with a neutral?
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Underwater254 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:27 pm

THANK YOU RICH! The battery charger must only power up with line 2. I was under the assumption that the transfer switch was only for generator. On to the next issue. How to detach the power cord from the coiler?
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:15 am

It's a simple system.

Breakers on the left side of the panel are powered by Shore Power #1

Breakers on the right side of the panel are powered by Shore Power #2

The transfer breaker ties the left and right side of the panel together. There should be sliding lockouts to prevent bad choices. Obviously it's used with the generator, but it also works when only one shore power connection is available.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:41 am

On our 4160 the two (actually 4X 30 amp AC breakers) are only either "shore power" or "gen set" power. From experience there is no paralleling in the two input 120 VAC "Shore power" mode nor in the "gen set" mode? When running on gen I just push up the two plastic "bars" that prevent you from having a connection from gen to shore power. I attempted to attach a file of our breaker panel but dont know if it will "attach" or not?
Attachments
Circuit Breaker Panel - Boat in San Diego.jpg
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:44 pm

This is basically the same panel we have on the 3560/3570.

Is the generator larger on the 4160, or perhaps you have a diesel genny which is totally different?

On the 3560 I have a 120VAC output 7.3 KW output generator. Maybe your larger boat has a larger generator and the two sides of the AC panel are not paralleled but are separate output circuits on the larger generator?

On the 3560, the Shore Power 2 connection to the generator is definitely labeled "Transfer"
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:45 am

We have a 7.0 kW Westerbeke, 1800 RPM, 4 pole, 60 HZ set. The gen output is one "big" 10 AWG 120 VAC going to the 2 "gen set" 30 Amp AC side breakers in the salon breaker panel. If we are on our two cable shore power each cable powers only one of the two 30 amp breakers in the panel. As far as I know there isnt any way to have just one cable provide power to both of the shore power input breakers? Either you have 2 cables connected to shore power and have both 30 amp shore power breakers on or you dont get power to both the AC #1 and #2 . So, if only one breaker on you only get power to the sub breakers on that side of the panel, nothing on the other side?
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby Rpontual » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:19 pm

gofast24 wrote:We have a 7.0 kW Westerbeke, 1800 RPM, 4 pole, 60 HZ set. The gen output is one "big" 10 AWG 120 VAC going to the 2 "gen set" 30 Amp AC side breakers in the salon breaker panel. If we are on our two cable shore power each cable powers only one of the two 30 amp breakers in the panel. As far as I know there isnt any way to have just one cable provide power to both of the shore power input breakers? Either you have 2 cables connected to shore power and have both 30 amp shore power breakers on or you dont get power to both the AC #1 and #2 . So, if only one breaker on you only get power to the sub breakers on that side of the panel, nothing on the other side?


You can distribute power to both sides from Shore Power 1 cable (it does not work from Shore Power 2). Simply connect shore power 1 and switch on the breaker below the shore power 2 breaker. On my 35SC, the breaker below the shore power 2 was called "transfer". Naturally, you have to be careful to not exceed 30 Amps of total consumption.

This works the same way the generator does. The generator replaces shore power 1 and feeds both sides of the panel through the transfer switch.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:47 am

Rpontual wrote:
gofast24 wrote:We have a 7.0 kW Westerbeke, 1800 RPM, 4 pole, 60 HZ set. The gen output is one "big" 10 AWG 120 VAC going to the 2 "gen set" 30 Amp AC side breakers in the salon breaker panel. If we are on our two cable shore power each cable powers only one of the two 30 amp breakers in the panel. As far as I know there isnt any way to have just one cable provide power to both of the shore power input breakers? Either you have 2 cables connected to shore power and have both 30 amp shore power breakers on or you dont get power to both the AC #1 and #2 . So, if only one breaker on you only get power to the sub breakers on that side of the panel, nothing on the other side?


You can distribute power to both sides from Shore Power 1 cable (it does not work from Shore Power 2). Simply connect shore power 1 and switch on the breaker below the shore power 2 breaker. On my 35SC, the breaker below the shore power 2 was called "transfer". Naturally, you have to be careful to not exceed 30 Amps of total consumption.

This works the same way the generator does. The generator replaces shore power 1 and feeds both sides of the panel through the transfer switch.

Thanks, have to try that. We have never been in a position to have only one shore power 30 amp/ 120 VAC dock outlet available in order to need that interesting configuration, so, bottom line, we have to try it this weekend.

Thanks
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:40 pm

The 'transfer' breaker works great on my boat.

Most other boats end up buying a "Y" cable to try to feed both halves of the AC circuit. These can cost $200 or more!

My dock was a single 30A outlet for a few years, so I just lived with the single cable and used the transfer breaker, it worked great! We would pop a breaker every so often as a high current device was used at the same time as another, but we quickly learned what could be simultaneously used, and just were more careful.

Now I have two 30A shore power connections and no longer have to worry about this, except of course when running on the generator.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:29 am

Thanks Rich,
Just to confirm you are indicating to leave shore power 1 plugged in and then if disconnecting shore power 2 cable that shore power 1 will feed both sides (#1 and #2) with both shore power 30 amp breakers left in the on position? Will be at the dock tomorrow and will give it a try:)

On another note (maybe I should start a new thread?) our gen sets last oil and filter change was in April 2015, used Castrol 10W-40 full synthetic and new Westerbeke (actually WIX 51334XP oil filters, higher filtering capacity and well built filter) and as of today the set has only 35 hours on it. I should know better that not only the engine hours but the time the oil has been in the engine are both important factors regarding when oil should be changed. Could take a oil sample and have it analyzed but for the cost of the analysis it is just makes more economic sense to just put 2.5 quarts of new oil and a new filter in, cost about the same as a oil analysis:) Tomorrow AM will change the oil and filter on the Westerbeke before it gets hot in a month or two here in GA?
In my experience it is the reduction in TBN (Total Base Number) that determines, among other things, when lubricating oil can no longer neutralize the acids from combustion by products and therefore allow the acidity of the "old/low operating hours" oil to start etching the bearings, pistons, and any other aluminum engine components.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby cbsmith » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:22 pm

I would change the gen set oil if it is going on 3 years old. Most manufacturers say to change the oil every year if you don’t meet an engine hour limit for changing. Given the low cost of the filter and oil for it I would recommend doing it every season.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:24 pm

Gofast,

O my 3560 boat, I can use only shore power #1 to power my whole boat if:

1) Shore power #1 breaker is ON (of course cable #1 breaker is also on in the Shore Power cable locker)
2) Shore power #2 breaker is OFF
3) Transfer breaker is ON

Note, on my boat, the "Transfer breaker" is the second breaker normally used to connect the right hand side of the AC panel breakers to the output of the generator. The "Transfer" breaker is the one just below the "Shore Power 2" breaker, and includes a physical sliding interlock to prevent it from being turned on at the same time as the "Shore power 2" breaker.

I could assume it should work the same way on your boat, since your generator only has a single 120V AC output. Let us know if it works for you.

Yes, I agree a separate thread for OIL is a good idea. ;)
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:16 am

Rich, thanks for the input. I am just going to do a oil/filter change on gen set, no need to start a new topic for something I should have already known the answers to :)
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:12 am

gofast24 wrote:
Rpontual wrote:
gofast24 wrote:We have a 7.0 kW Westerbeke, 1800 RPM, 4 pole, 60 HZ set. The gen output is one "big" 10 AWG 120 VAC going to the 2 "gen set" 30 Amp AC side breakers in the salon breaker panel. If we are on our two cable shore power each cable powers only one of the two 30 amp breakers in the panel. As far as I know there isnt any way to have just one cable provide power to both of the shore power input breakers? Either you have 2 cables connected to shore power and have both 30 amp shore power breakers on or you dont get power to both the AC #1 and #2 . So, if only one breaker on you only get power to the sub breakers on that side of the panel, nothing on the other side?


You can distribute power to both sides from Shore Power 1 cable (it does not work from Shore Power 2). Simply connect shore power 1 and switch on the breaker below the shore power 2 breaker. On my 35SC, the breaker below the shore power 2 was called "transfer". Naturally, you have to be careful to not exceed 30 Amps of total consumption.

This works the same way the generator does. The generator replaces shore power 1 and feeds both sides of the panel through the transfer switch.

Thanks, have to try that. We have never been in a position to have only one shore power 30 amp/ 120 VAC dock outlet available in order to need that interesting configuration, so, bottom line, we have to try it this weekend.

Thanks

Was at the boat yesterday, I am wrong and you are correct= The is a "transfer" label below the AC breaker panel under #2! Just unplugged Shore Power #2 cable and turned the transfer breaker on. The one shore power cable did power both sides of the AC , connected one A/C unit, started and ran fine but when turning on the second A/C the #1 breaker tripped. As you indicated, just 30 amps input from one shore power cable is not enough to run both A/C units at the same time :)
Thanks
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:15 am

Good to know it works the same way.

On your boat I would guess that one air conditioning unit is on shore power #1 and the second air conditioning unit is fed from the other side of the panel and normally from shore power #2.
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby gofast24 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:21 am

ImRich wrote:Good to know it works the same way.

On your boat I would guess that one air conditioning unit is on shore power #1 and the second air conditioning unit is fed from the other side of the panel and normally from shore power #2.

You are correct! Also, I did change the oil and filter on the Westerbeke. Interesting, last time we did it I used a 2 gallon oil change can that has a hand pump that pulls a vacuum in the can and "sucks" out the old oil thru a nylon tube through the dipstick tube, removed 2.5 qts. of oil then . Saturday did the same process and only got 2 qts. of oil out? It is difficult to know when you push the small 1/4" nyloseal tube into the sump if you are actually on the bottom of the oil pan, just above it, or pushed too much tubing in and it curled up the side of the pan so it wasn't on the bottom of the pan and not get the max. volume of oil out of the sump? Just gave up on getting any more oil out of the sump and just put 2 qts. of new oil (and filter) in and after a 2 minute run and 10 minutes off to allow the oil to settle into the pan the oil was up to the full mark on the dipstick? Well, 2 quarts of new oil is better than 3 years old oil so just finished up and went to sea:) PS: After 3 years we had just 41 hours on the gen set, it is a shame to have to change oil on a IC engine with only 41 hours on the set? But, I should know better :)
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Re: 3560 charging question

Postby ImRich » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Your panel breakers tripping with the two aircond's running with the transfer breaker make me wonder how they both can run on your generator? I would think everything is running via the same breakers on your panel, but with one line going to the generator, instead of to the dock shore power.
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